College Degrees. Debt Tank or Launch Pad?

Posted on 14 January 2010 by Shane Mac

DegreeThe day after I wrote this post and started editing it, I found Ms. Career Girl’s post, “The Best Education is Self-Education,” and Matt Chevy’s “I’ll Never Go Back to School,” which are both great reads.  I want to dig a little deeper, ask some different questions, and think about it from another angle though.  Before I start with my thoughts on college degrees and questioning the value of them, please know that I believe ongoing education is one of the most important parts of life and can honestly say that Self-Education has taught me more than anything.  I also understand that Medical Doctors, Lawyers, and Bio-Molecular Engineering probably need years in a classroom.  This is more about the ‘other’ majors, and I find myself thinking about this subject a lot lately when I see my student loans every month and the career path I took is a completely different route than what I studied in college, Finance and Economics.  Sometimes you just have to wonder if you really needed that $60,000 piece of paper?  Lately, mainly because of the free information era we live in, I feel that I have learned more over the last year than the past 6 combined.  It is no longer about the resources available to us because we are only limited by our willingness to learn.  Everything is out there and the best part is that it’s free.  The bigger problem is knowing where to look.  Here are 5 questions that I sometimes wonder about…

1. Do College Degrees Follow the Law of Demand?

Investopedia states that,

…if all other factors remain equal, the higher the price of a good, the less people will demand that good. In other words, the higher the price, the lower the quantity demanded.

But according to http://www.solutionsforourfuture.org,

The period from 2000 to 2015 will see the single largest growth in college enrollments in our nation’s history: nearly 20% growth overall while the average cost of college tuition has risen more than 65% over the past decade.

Those two statements contradict each other.  The price is rising but so is the quantity?  In my awesome squabart below I try to show what I believe does not make sense with the “Law of College.”  The first chart shows how the “Law of Demand” is supposed to work, while the second chart shows what is actually happening in the “college market.” Whenever you have an open market system with the powerful outside voices all pushing for the importance of following the system and almost making college sound as if it were needed, we should at least ask some questions.  It can almost be compared to our 401k system, but that’s another story.

Lawofdemand_degreelawofcollege_question

2. Are Colleges a Business?

Remember that colleges need you so that they can stay in business.  Not much different from any other business right?  The problem is not about colleges acting like a business, it is about the system which most of us think we need to go through no matter what the cost.  If you run a business and know that the price is the least important part to your customers, would you raise your price?  To give colleges credit, they have a lot of people to pay plus the price of professors, which we all know is not cheap. But where is all this extra stream of money going? According to a study by the National Association of College and University Business Officers,

…more than half (52 percent) of the participants agree that colleges today are “more like businesses and mainly care about the bottom line.”  Further, more than 40 percent of respondents believe that “waste and mismanagement” are major factors driving up the cost of higher education.

It seems like college is forced down your throat from the day you start high school, and I just wonder if colleges know this and take advantage of the system that they know most of us will follow because it is what we are ’supposed’ to do.  If I don’t spend this money on college I won’t be successful, right?  Is that why I have 10 years left before I pay off my college debt? (thanks to great parents who help me out with that.)

3. When Degrees Increase, Does Value Decrease?

What do you mean the value of my degree decreases?  It is simply supply and demand again.  It seems pretty self-explanatory that the more degrees we have, the less value each degree holds.  Ultimately, we just have a lot more equal competition.  What I don’t understand is the cost compared to the value.  How does the price of a degree rise substantially over the past 20 years while the value and market has become saturated.  I sometimes think I would stand out more if I could prove my knowledge without having a degree and being able to tell the story of teaching myself. Nowadays, degrees are more like resumes just a lot more expensive.  20 years ago a degree was like the key to the door, nowadays it is more like a map without directions.   A man who questions the value of a degree is the founder of 37signals.com, Jason Fried, who recently made this statement about his book.

…I would hope the book would encourage you *not* to spend time getting a degree. Spend the time building things instead.

Another quote that we should always remember comes from Mark Twain.  He believes that,

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

I truly believe in learning and teaching yourself while also building something that can be of value down the road.  I think colleges should bridge the gap to the real world a little more so all of our value isn’t placed on a sheet of paper.  We just need to find some way to stand out from the Bachelor degree party we now live in.  I know, I know, we can get a masters or doctorate, but what else?  Is there a way to make my Bachelor’s degree stand out more than yours?

4. Holy Debt?

I’ll be honest.  When I was in college it was out of sight out of mind regarding my student loans.  I never even thought about it, ever.  I just had this cash flow, awesome spending money, and a debit card but then 6 months post-graduate….BAM! Hello Debt!  I think I about died when I saw that first statement and realized how much the past four years had cost me.  Did you know exactly how much your student loans were going to be over the course of your college career? For those of us who are out of college, do you find yourselves with a career that allows you to pay down your student loans comfortably or is it a struggle?  Do you have a job that you could only have because of your 4-year degree? Would love to hear your story in the comments. Donate to my college fund using Paypal at mac@mcsimov.net. Joke.

5. So, Was It Worth It?

Would I be where I am today had it not been for those four years of college?  I believe that the future of business and life is one where we learn from each other and your value is based on ones ambition, passion, and ability to learn from those who are willing to teach. I really can’t say in certain if it helped with my career or not, but I believe that life is built by the relationships we build and the paths we cross so I would have to say because of the people and professors I was able to meet in college that I wouldn’t change a thing.  You can’t put money on a true friendship and the value I have gained from them.  Also, realize that I am not saying I didn’t learn anything in college because that would be completely false.  I had great professors and was educated about business in general.  I am just questioning the cost versus the value of college and whether or not I could have actually learned more had I spent 4 years learning on my own.  It just sucks some days when I login to nelnet and I start thinking of the things I could do with a loan like that today. I would love to hear your thoughts on this and whether or not you think the value of degrees will continue to be the main ticket that allows us to play the game or if this new world of free information will spark an entirely new breed of student entrepreneurs who know they can teach themselves and will.  Was it your degree that opened the door for you to get an interview or was it actually the skills you learned in college that gave you a launch pad into your career?

Just remember that whether you went to college or not, continuing education is the key to get where you are going.  Whether it is Self-Education or not really doesn’t matter.

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This post was written by Shane Mac, founder of thesquab.com.  Read more about him, click here to follow him on twitter, or become a fan of the squab on facebook.

Photo Credit: Kevin Spencer

  • Great post!
    I'm in grad school, so my undergrad defintiely helped me and was worth the money and time. I learned so much that I could never have taught myself or could have ever learned in a job. Mostly... how to do experimental research. I was fortunate in terms of the cost of school. My dad had to pay for half of my undergrad based on my parents' divorce agreement (sometimes cheating on your wife will be held against you in a way that helps your kids, haha). My grandparents helped with some tuition. I paid for the rest of my tuition and everything I needed to live on by working one to three jobs while I was in school. So I left undergrad with some credit card debt, but I was able to pay that back within two years of graduating. It wasn't easy, don't get me wrong, but I did it. Now I do have some subsidized loans for my Master's, but if I get into a PhD program, tuition is free and I will just have living expenses like a "normal" person. That is one benefit of a PhD program in a specialized field... they pay you to go there to be their slaves. ;)
    I guess my point is that everyone is different. Everyone needs different things to succeed. Everyone should weigh the pros and cons of going to school versus not going. A B.S. now is like a ticket to the employment game. Without one, it is tough to get into that game. Once you have it, then experience can be the best thing depending on the job. School and experience are equally imporant. Experience is good, but we can repeat patterns we think are right just because they're patterns. We may learn a new way of doing things that is more correct or helpful or rewarding if we go to school.
    As I discussed at length on Matt's post, I have to have an advanced degree. But, I refuse to be os in debt like some of my friends. I live on the cheap and save my money the best I can and am blessed to have a family you can step up if I ever need it. If it came down to it, I'd rather get a job with my Master's and make a little less each year than go on to get my PhD if I new I'd have 100s of thousands in debt when I left. That is not worth it, to me.
    Yikes! Didn't mean to post a novel! :D
  • Thanks for the comment Alexandra. How is the Grad degree going?
  • (you can call me Alex or pixie658, I need to change my name on Disqus... sounds so weird when someone calls me that, haha) Grad school is carazy! But worth it every second. :) How are things on your end?
  • Hey Shane,

    I agree with the sentiments from your post. I also graduated with a degree in finance and econ in 08 and then realized I didn't want anything to do with most related jobs so I completely bootstrapped myself in web development over the past two years so that I can work anywhere and pursue a dream of shark photography...

    Anyways, I think the social aspect of college is huge (you're kinda weird nowadays if you don't go) and personally it taught me to think critically since I went to a liberal arts school... I ask "why" a lot more now. However, at the same point if you're doing what everyone else is doing, you'll get what everyone else is getting as well... Did you go through several jobs before you landed your cobalt gig?

    Found your site(s) and info via your interview over at untemplater... like your style and bookmarked your site. Keep up the good work.
  • Thanks Ryan,

    What kind of web dev do you like to do?
  • brianwils
    Great article really enjoyed your thoughts and ideas. I think what it comes down to is doing what you enjoy and love. Life is to short ...plain and simple. Never stop teaching yourself because we will never know it all. Look forward to future posts keep up the good work!
  • debzie
    Thank you for expressing these sentiments! I share your thoughts and was delighted to "stumble" upon this site to learn more about what others are saying and doing in the career quest game. It is valuable to see how an education is being viewed today by people at different stages of their career and life journey path. I have battled this conversation myself and will keep reading! Thanks Brian and Thanks to Shane for a great resource.
  • Thanks Debzie,
    How did you find the site?
  • MY MAN!! How have you been? Call me today sometime if you are around! We need to catch up.
  • Hey Shane, this is a really great post.

    I also read the two posts you mention at the beginning; all of these come at the most appropriate time for me because I've spent the past two weeks reflecting on my education, its cost and its value. I'm wondering if it's worth continuing and finishing. This is not an easy decision, and posts like this one really give me some perspective. So, thanks. :]
  • Hey Dariane,

    Thanks for reading it! I really can't make up my mind on this front. I think it totally depends on the person and what type of work you see yourself doing in life. (Since I see that you are part of the 'untemplaters' I would probably have a good idea where you stand, and that is awesome)...

    It is a tough choice... The biggest thing to remember is that you have to continue learning, striving to do more, helping, and work to create something... If you always learn and don't create then you can't show anyone how much you know and will then be judge by your 'degree' that you may or may not have.

    Degrees can be silenced if you have something else to show for what you have done. Sometimes for years of college means all you have to show is a 8 1/2 x 11 piece of paper and who knows what that actually means... Mine meant I used a lot of friends study guides, stayed up super late cramming, and didn't really put much effort into it but always made it buy. What I learn by doing blows away what I learned from the classroom. That said, my professors rocked and it was a great 4 years of growing up...

    If you have any questions or just want to chat feel free to reach out anytime. thesquab@gmail.com.

    Thanks,
    Shane Mac
  • lukeberg
    Shane, ( or do you prefer Shame Mac? )

    Interesting ideas. There are a few difference with how I look at college or at least for my degree. I am a computer science and mathematics graduate and I would go so far as to say that a bachelor degree isn't enough for many of the jobs that would appeal to me even though I feel I could do them.
    1. I look at college as the cost of entry for a field. IMHO the graph should be earning potential of post college vs no college with post college starting off negative and likely with a steeper slope. The question with rising colleges is when is the negative start too large to be worth it vs. networking straight out of high school and going back to the old way of getting your foot in the door and working your way up.
    2. This is an interesting one for me. I chose to go to public school ( although a good public school at UW ) based on cost vs a private school.
    I agree that colleges are a becoming more like businesses but I really think that what should happen is based on the colleges. I feel very strongly that the public institutions should provide an opportunity for any kid to get a degree if they work hard enough for it. It might not be the best but it should give a kid a chance to get started if s/he is willing. I hate to see public costs become too much. I feel fine with private schools operating however they want to. If they think that the increased cost is going to be worth increase in education then go for it.

    Alright, that is already quite lengthy so I'll just start there. I'd love to continue the conversation as I said education is something I really feel strong about.

    Luke
  • Thanks for stopping by sir. You can call me Shane or Shane Mac, doesn't matter to me.

    I see your points and I just had a couple responses. To your first point, I graphs are looking at the situation solely based on the number of degrees that are in the market compared to the cost of the degree. The value isn't really part of the equation and is more of my opinion.

    As for 2, Do you have any ideas on how to keep the cost down of public institutions? Is there a way to attract great professors and retain them without the cost? Is there a model like that of Kiva.org that might help balance the cost of college?

    I really don't know where the public sector is going but I do agree with you that Private can do whatever they want. There will always be groups willing to pay the price for anything, whether it is more valuable or not.

    Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts. Glad you found the site.
  • ted
    Great article! Love the way you look at the economics of the decision. Just found your blog - I'll be following.
  • Hey Ted,

    Thanks for the comments and I look for to talking with you more. Feel free to reach out on Twitter or stay in touch through the facebook fan page. Thanks for stopping by.
  • I have a BA in Creative Writing, has that gotten me anywhere? Not really, it didn't even get me into an MFA program! But I do love school, which is why I am now working on a Masters of Education to become a high school English teacher. I hope to take the things I learned from my professors in college about student-teacher relationships and feedback and bring it to the high school level. Now, if only I didn't have to pay 28k a year to get this MEd...

    Like you, I never thought about the debt I was incurring during my undergrad until 6 months later. Luckily I was working for AmeriCorps at the time (setting up mentoring opportunities!) and was able to defer my loans. I have yet to pay a dime on them. If you keep going to school until you die, you don't have to pay them back...maybe that will be my goal ;)
  • Caitin,

    Glad you found the post. English Teacher? That is awesome... I find nothing more rewarding than reaching out and helping people see a path that they may not have known existed just from something as simple as a conversation...

    If I could do one job without having 4 more years of school and 100K of debt I would be a professors. I love that stuff and I think it would be an incredible journey of continuing to learn more everyday.

    Anyways, Best of Luck with all you do and reach out anytime through email or whatever! thesquab@gmail.com

    Have a great weekend!
    -Shane
  • stephaniewilborn
    Great discussion! I have to say there are days where I am so glad that I went to college for the friends and connections, but wish I could turn around and change my degree. Other days I love the fact that my degrees have opened doors for me that would have otherwise been closed.

    However, it is amazing how the things in life that I have done in my life that weren't for "structured" education have had a much larger impact on how I live my life. Life is a fabulous teacher and I look forward to learning more throughout my life.

    I have to admit too though that I still go to community college even after graduating from Seattle U with my accounting and management degrees just because I love challenging my brain and expanding my knowledge in ways that I don't think would be available outside of a "structured" environment.

    I figure no matter how you learn as long as you are constantly challenging yourself and expanding your horizons it is an amazing thing!
  • Stephanie,
    Thanks for stopping by. First off, how have you been? Second, you nailed it with your last comment, "I figure no matter how you learn as long as you are constantly challenging yourself and expanding your horizons it is an amazing thing!"

    It is about learning and realizing that is what life is about. Those who claim to know everything are really claiming ignorance. That's awesome you are still going to school and continuing to learn more but for me I guess I will just keep reading the books I would of read in the class. With that said, there is always a place for a kick ass mentor or teacher!

    Either way, glad you joined and maybe ill see you out sometime!
  • stephaniewilborn
    I have to admit that I am taking language classes so I figured I would probably need to go somewhere where I can be corrected on my pronunciations (not many Italian speakers in Seattle). Not something I could really read about easily.

    Hope to see you out sometime too! I think I saw you on one of the pub crawls last summer, but not really sure. Where are you hanging out these days?
  • See I would think there has to be a club or group of people who speak the language where you wouldn't have to pay for class and read yourself. Language seems like something you have to do over and over again to get it. Either way, that is a perfect example of why a mentor or teacher would be key.

    Reach out off here if you want to chat... shane@shanemac.me
  • I'm sort of in the same position - not really sure if my college education really helped me get to where I am today, or if it just confused me more than I already was before I started. You know how I feel about higher ed, and why I don't plan on going back - at the end of the day, I'd rather let my experiences guide me to where I want to be. Cheers!
  • Thanks for stopping by Matt. I think most people with an undergrad business / communications / journalism degree tend to have the same thoughts. It is more of the map like I said and not an actual direction. The truth is that while we spend a lot of time thinking about what we won't to do, we usually end of taking whatever we are offered and we all know it is not the easiest thing to change paths once you are headed down one.

    Hope Chicago is well and keep kicking ass in 2010.
  • I left the path of journo and ended up with a BA in marketing - was it smart? I don't know - in college I thought marketing was a more "specialized" field but in reality, everyone and their mother our age claims to be marketing/PR. I'm less concerned with the specific industry and more interested in a "fit" that interests me.

    2010 will be a good one, that's for sure.
  • That's hilarious. I left Marketing because it made up 60% of the business college. Similar situation except I left to go to Finance and Econ. I still use many of the principals I learned from them so I guess it is all good.
  • Yeah our school was very different - HUGE music business school (Belmont University in Nashville) - small campus overall (under 5000) so there wasn't a huge marketing department. Everybody knew everybody...
  • You play music?
  • "I believe that life is built by the relationships we build and the paths we cross so I would have to say because of the people and professors I was able to meet in college that I wouldn’t change a thing."

    I think that's them most important part there. Whether you're going back to school simply to just learn, or to gain more knowledge to advance your career, either way you're going to create relationships that could last a long time and make a hell of a difference.
  • Hey Tim,
    Thanks for stopping by. You are completely correct in what you say and I truly believe that relationships are the only thing that we truly have. Look forward to talking more and thanks for the comment.
  • Hey Cali,

    Thank you for becoming a Squabber. (I think my buddy just made that up.) I really am not trying to bash the system and I do believe that mentors and teachers are a critical piece of the puzzle to help us get where we are going but I just can't justify how much money it cost now and the predictions for the future of education.

    The other problem I find is that many people aren't like us. They don't see 'academia' as a passion rather a burden. I hope we can find a way to blend real life into school so that more students will be enticed to get involved and find more value in what we get out of each class. As for the price, I see no solution coming soon until we have a financial crisis because all of the loans start defaulting, then we shall worry.

    P.S. If you have any questions, ask. Look forward to talking with you.
  • You have asked some important questions, and I really appreciate your line of thought. I too read (and enjoyed!) both Matt and Nicole's posts.

    I'm in an intellectual love affair with academia. There - I said it. I have loved my higher ed experiences and have zero regret in (currently) working on my master's degree. But I haven't used it as a crutch (geez, I hope I haven't! ;)), and I continue to self-teach in other areas of my life.

    Your closing two lines are spot on: "continuing education is the key to get where you are going." I agree! In the "about me" page on my blog, I admit my love of academia, but also say that education, no matter what form it comes in, is paramount.

    Really enjoyed your thoughts!
  • Hey Cali,

    Thank you for becoming a Squabber. (I think I just made that up.) I really am not trying to bash the system and I do believe that mentors and teachers are a critical piece of the puzzle to help us get where we are going but I just can't justify how much money it cost now and the predictions for the future of education.

    The other problem I find is that many people aren't like us. They don't see 'academia' as a passion rather a burden. I hope we can find a way to blend real life into school so that more students will be enticed to get involved and find more value in what we get out of each class. As for the price, I see no solution coming soon until we have a financial crisis because all of the loans start defaulting, then we shall worry.
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